Comments on: A Post-Script on the Bans

By: Finished « The Noy G Show

Finished « The Noy G Show — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 19:34:36 +0000

[...] I simply cannot take this anymore. What’s most sad about this, in my opinion, is that things like this erode the authority of the rabbinic leadership on matters of true importance. If this is what [...]

By: Dan

Dan — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:33:19 +0000

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/nyregion/03concert.html?ex=1362286800&en=96ec342abe64dd42&ei=5124&partner=facebook&exprod=facebook

By: Elster

Elster — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:20:40 +0000

Hmmm – who is being “snarky” now???

Yes, I meant discount. You might learn I often press enter without double checking my work…..

By: Noyam

Noyam — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:00:11 +0000

I caution anyone to be too quick to discuss* the role of the rabbi in jewish life.

I hope you mean “discount” because we should be allowed to discuss it.

By: Elster

Elster — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:26:39 +0000

OK – I respect your position.

And while I fully agree that the current rabbonim who make up the world of Daas Torah are silly – I caution anyone to be too quick to discuss the role of the rabbi in jewish life.

Still, pointless to continue to debate this.

By: Noyam

Noyam — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:58:03 +0000

The part of your argument that was semantic was not to rebut my points but just to say “yes, that would be called Gadol Hador.” That doesn’t mean there is such a thing, just that there’s a word for it. That’s semantic, i.e. “Of or relating to meaning, especially meaning in language.”

But do you disagree that R’ Elchanan Wasserman was not a LEADER of a majority of european jews?

Whether I agree or not is irrelevant. You yourself in your question show that. You’ve limited R’ Wasserman’s scope to a “majority of European Jews.” Even if you do call him Gadol Hador, so what? He’s still not in a position to pasken for the entire world of Jews. Just granting him the title doesn’t mean anything, and certainly doesn’t answer my point.

Does it matter if not everyone follows him if me is recognized by a great majority as Gadol Hador?

First of all, I wonder what “great majority” means, becuase you’ve limited it to European Jews, and I wonder if that’s a majority of Jews in the world. So, yes, it does matter, in fact. R’ Wasserman, as great as he was, suffers from the same deficiency as everyone else throughout history of not being the recognized Posek for the world, despite your assertion of his title of “Gadol Hador.”

By: Elster

Elster — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:46:03 +0000

Noyam – No, in the recent past (last few hundred years) there has not been one leader recognized by every group – as you said, Jews don’t have a pope. But do you disagree that R’ Elchanan Wasserman was not a LEADER of a majority of european jews? Does it matter if not everyone follows him if me is recognized by a great majority as Gadol Hador?

Not sure which part of my argument the pure semantics go to so i’ll reserve the right to comment on that.

As for snarkiness, it was unintended though not a new concept for this site

Rob – No doubt you are correct. The ban on concerts is…stuoid, asinine, silly – pick whatever word you like.
I don’t disagree.

By: Rob

Rob — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:45:12 +0000

“Rob points out that going to concerts is ONLY a hashkafah issue in the very sentence that he says there is grounds for sayng all post-churban live music is assur. So which is it, halacha or hashkafah? And who decides? ”

The live music/zecher l’churban halacha had nothing to do with this ban. All the rabonim that signed the ban have live music at their simchas beis hashoevas and at weddings etc. This ban was purely hashkafik. I think the proponents of the ban would agree with that.

By: Noyam

Noyam — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:44:37 +0000

And when I say “universally,” I mean it. One person qualified and recognized to paskan halachah for every Jew in the world, including Ashkenazi and Sefardi, Eastern European and Syrian, Yerushalmi and Chutznik? In all of history, has there ever been?

And if you look at the history of Jewish leadership, you see that in fact the concept does not exist. The Sanhedrin was a group of 70. The Tanna’im and Amora’im are contantly arguing, and there’s no recognition that one person has the say over every Jew in the world.

So despite your interjection and snarky tone, I think you’re still wrong.

By: Noyam

Noyam — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:41:20 +0000

Elster, you’re argument is purely semantic. Has there ever been a universally recognized and followed “Gadol Hador”? What does defining the concept add to the question of the existence of the concept?