“Top Post on Every Jewish Blog in the World”

This is absolutely terrible.  Atrocious.

Five Haredi men beat a woman for not moving to the back of the bus

Something MUST be done about this.  This is happening too many times!!

 

Hattip: DovBear (Adam may have stopped here, but this one’s too important to miss)

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17 responses to ““Top Post on Every Jewish Blog in the World”

  1. Done? By whom. I think that the charedi community needs to recognize that this is a problem before anything could get done. Since they do not (and will not), the only thing one could realistically expect is more of the same.

  2. I mean that the government of Israel needs to step and do something. There should be investigations, arrests and an enforcement of the law that segregation is illegal on public buses. There should be no such thing as a “mehadrin” bus, regardless of what Egged and the Chareidim agree to.

    I think the leaders of the Charedi community should be held publically accountable. They should be penalized unless they publically and forcefully denounce such activities.

  3. There should be no such thing as a “mehadrin” bus, regardless of what Egged and the Chareidim agree to.

    This is the toughest question of the entire mess. If Egged was private, segregation would be far less problematic.

    I think the leaders of the Charedi community should be held publically accountable. They should be penalized unless they publically and forcefully denounce such activities.

    On what basis could the Israeli government do that? I realize Israel doesn’t have the Brandenberg test for incitement to violence questions, but penalizing a community leader for actions of a follower without some link between the follower and leader is going too far.

  4. Nephtuli, I really wasn’t thinking about this from a legal/constitutional perspective. I know it’s probably unlikely for something like this to happen.

    However, if the penalty isn’t criminal, but rather the government ties yeshiva dollars to a specific condemnation of this behavior? Meaning, a Rosh Yeshiva is given a choice: either have a public denouncement of all actions of this type and the attitudes that give rise to it, have every R”M in the yeshiva sign it, or you lose your funding.

    Make a new rule (in Israel): silence in the face of religiously motivated violence and religiously justified segregation is presumptive support. Support for the religiously motivated violence and religiously justified segregation will not be tolerated.

  5. Make a new rule (in Israel): silence in the face of religiously motivated violence and religiously justified segregation is presumptive support. Support for the religiously motivated violence and religiously justified segregation will not be tolerated.

    It’s a great idea in theory but that could never happen for all types of social and political reasons. The Chareidi society would view such tactics as an attack on their way of life.

    I don’t know if there’s any real way to solve this problem. It’s an outgrowth of an ideology that tends to shift toward extremism, but the Chareidi society is not moving in a more temperate direction. Maybe as the poverty mounts and work becomes more and more acceptable, pramatism will seep into the community and there won’t be a need anymore for segregated buses, just like there never was at any other point in our history.

  6. I wonder – whom do you punish? No rabbi is going to own up t the fact that he’s using his “daas toyrah” to preside over a bunch of nutty goons.

    Also, I think a public disclaimer would do nothing. Literally nothing. They would sign it and then pass the message on that they were doing it to make sure that they could get as much as they possibly could from the government so quickly that your head would spin.

    Nepthuli, I used to think along your lines; mainly, “as the poverty mounts and work becomes more and more acceptable, pramatism will seep into the community” but I no longer do. The community is already steeped in poverty and, if anything, it has increased resolve and dedication to the ideals and principals of the governing rabbis. The only thing that the poverty does is breed ignorance, no respect for education or constructive thought and hatred towards a government that’s growing weary of supporting this lifestyle (and has moved to cut its expenditures to the community).

    If poverty were to have bred change, it would have happened already.

  7. Nepthuli, I used to think along your lines; mainly, “as the poverty mounts and work becomes more and more acceptable, pramatism will seep into the community” but I no longer do. The community is already steeped in poverty and, if anything, it has increased resolve and dedication to the ideals and principals of the governing rabbis. The only thing that the poverty does is breed ignorance, no respect for education or constructive thought and hatred towards a government that’s growing weary of supporting this lifestyle (and has moved to cut its expenditures to the community).

    If poverty were to have bred change, it would have happened already.

    I think it’s a slow moving process, and it’s only been a few years since the government cut the large amount of welfare that used to be common fare. Maybe I have a more optimistic worldview, but I’m assuming that people aren’t going to stand for being poor forever.

  8. Nephtuli,

    The problem with that theory is that proverty itself breeds extremism (when used by the right charismatic leaders to their advantage). The poorer the community gets, the more they will be under the control of the charismatic leaders, and mroe likely to accept extremist points of view.

    With the caveat that I am not comparing these people to terrorists, compare these people to terrorists. It’s the abject poverty they live in that allows the imams to bend their minds to the extreme, and convince them that killing themselves is a good thing.

    As the chareidi community gets poorer, isnt’ the likelihood greater that it will submit more to extremist ideology, therefore continuing the downward spiral, as opposed to just “snap out of it” for the sake of money?

    If they are consistently barraged with the extremist message that led to the poverty to begin with, the chance that they will wake up and refuse to be poor is small, because it would be inapposite to the extremist ideology that controls their lives.

  9. Noyam,

    There’s a big debate about the link between terrorism and poverty and while no one would doubt there is a link, it’s questionable how large.

    But frankly I think you and Mike might be right. I hope you guys aren’t. I hope they will realize that just a few miles away people aren’t living in poverty. I hope they’ll realize that secular studies are necessary to have a reasonable standard of living in the 21st Century. I hope you’re wrong, but I’m not holding my breath.

  10. Oh also the big problem is that change will only happen from the bottom up, because no Rabbinic leader is going to be the one to tell the people to get jobs because he’ll be remembered as the leader who told people to “stop learning.” Who wants to be remembered that way?

  11. I know Ezzie posted on this once, but I am still inclined to believe in the link between poverty and extremism (if not terrorism).

    Look at Hamas and the refugee camps in Gaza. Look at Germany in the lead-up to World War II. When people are depressed (not in a clinical sense, but in a meta-physical sense) and lack hope, they turn to the extreme ideas that offer them comfort.

    When the end of the sentence is “and your reward will come in heaven,” then does it matter what the first part is? No. And the poorer and more hopeless you are, the more likely you are to believe it.

    People will keep learning the story of Rabbi Chanina Ben Dosa and the three-legged table. And people will keep believing it means that if they pray for better sustenance, this will harm them in the world to come.

  12. Lawyer-Wearing-Yarmulka

    How do you stop this? With signs that say it’s ossur to beat women? What’s a rabbi supposed to do?

  13. “I had a dream last night that a hamburger was eating ME!” –Jerry

    We have some crazy yarmulkas posting on this blog.

  14. Adam, try to keep up. Lawyer-Wearing-Yarmulka is the grown up, employed incarnation of Classmate-Wearing-Yarmulka. (See his last blog post.)

  15. “How do you stop this? With signs that say it’s ossur to beat women? What’s a rabbi supposed to do?”

    I think you make an interesting point. The short answer is, yes, the rabbis should do whatever they humanly can do. This starts with the abolishment of the silly idea of segregated buses. The experiment should be over – the costs (humilation, abuse of women, abuse of authority, etc…) outweigh whatever minor religious benefit such programs offer. The blatant sins being committed far outweigh the benefit of adhering to an obsolete tradition.

    But even in the highly unlikely event that the rabbonim all got together tomorrow and made a public outcry that this sort of behaviour would not be tolerated and those suspected/caught doing this would be put in cheirem, it still would not prevent such activity. By disassociating themselves from the rest of society (in Israel and here), the community has doomed itself to this sort of inbred, boorish behaviour and attitude towards women’s rights, civic duties, and general non-torah-related morality.

    I fear that our generation is lost already. The generation older than us was lost long ago. But that doesn’t mean that change doesn’t need to happen. And change starts at the top, from the rabbis that need to integrity their youngest chassidim into modern society down. It will take generations to undo the damage that has been done.

    Sadly, such change would require a relinquishment of authority by those required to implement such changes. And as Tom Petty sang ‘It’s Good to be King’. Ain’t ever gonna happen.

  16. I’m too loyal to the Noy G Show. I only read this blog.

  17. Lawyer-Wearing-Yarmulka

    First day on the job and I’m already commenting on blogs…not a good sign.

    Also, I wonder if I might get in trouble with the Bar, considering that I’m not actually a lawyer yet.

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